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Nationalities/Tribes

Might I sugest removing this category from Nationalities? I do not think this is the correct place. Besides: Both Ben Grimm and Kitty Pryde are from the United States of America (Ben is from Yancy Street, NY; and Kitty is from Chicago). However, this could be included under a different heading. - Farlstendoiro 08:10, 29 May 2006 (Eastern Daylight Time)

Certainly, I have been wondering how to best handle these categories. Especially the ones where religion and nationality are synonymous. Do you have any suggestions for how to better clarify these such categories?
--Jamie 08:47, 29 May 2006 (Eastern Daylight Time)
This should go under nationalities or tribes (if not both), since we self-define as an ethno-national/tribal people. It can't really be categorized as a religion, seeing as many Jews are secular or observe other faiths. ErmacDonald (talk) 04:46, September 3, 2017 (UTC)
From the main Wikipedia page....
"The Jews (/dʒuːz/;[10] Hebrew: יְהוּדִים‎ ISO 259-3 Yhudim, Israeli pronunciation [jehuˈdim]), also known as the Jewish people, are an ethnoreligious group[11] and nation[12][13][14] originating from the Israelites, or Hebrews, of the Ancient Near East.[15][16] Jewish ethnicity, nationhood and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish people,[17][18][19] while its observance varies from strict observance to complete nonobservance.
Jews originated as a people and religious group in the Middle East during the second millennium BCE,[9] in the part of the Levant known as the Land of Israel.[20] The Merneptah Stele appears to confirm the existence of a people of Israel somewhere in Canaan as far back as the 13th century BCE (Late Bronze Age).[21][22] The Israelites, as an outgrowth of the Canaanite population,[23] consolidated their hold with the emergence of the Kingdom of Israel, and the Kingdom of Judah. Some consider that these Canaanite sedentary Israelites melded with incoming nomadic groups known as 'Hebrews'.[24] Though few sources in the Bible mention the exilic periods in detail,[25] the experience of diaspora life, from the Ancient Egyptian rule over the Levant, to Assyrian Captivity and Exile, to Babylonian Captivity and Exile, to Seleucid Imperial rule, to the Roman occupation and Exile, and the historical relations between Jews and their homeland thereafter, became a major feature of Jewish history, identity and memory.[26]
Genetic studies on Jews show that most Jews worldwide bear a common genetic heritage which originates in the Middle East, and that they bear their strongest resemblance to the peoples of the Fertile Crescent.[74][75][76] The genetic composition of different Jewish groups shows that Jews share a common genetic pool dating back 4,000 years, as a marker of their common ancestral origin. Despite their long-term separation, Jewish communities maintained commonalities in culture, tradition, and language.[77]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews
ErmacDonald (talk) 05:07, September 3, 2017 (UTC)
That's an out-of-universe perspective. Are there any actual in-universe examples of characters where this category is currently being used in a non-religious fashion? -- Annabell (talk) 05:08, September 3, 2017 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you mean here. To my knowledge, most Jewish characters within the universe are not observant of Judaism (i.e. they are considered "Jewish" because of their lineage). ErmacDonald (talk) 06:14, October 1, 2017 (UTC)
At any rate, it makes no sense to categorize it as a religion only when the category itself explicitly includes "people of Jewish descent".ErmacDonald (talk) 06:24, October 1, 2017 (UTC)
It's relevant because we have an agreement that we do not categorize humans based upon ethnicity here at the Marvel Database, so the category should not mention descent (I'll delete that part of the description now) nor should it be utilized in that manner. It should only include characters whose practice of Judaism can be properly cited with an in-universe reference. -- Annabell (talk) 06:42, October 1, 2017 (UTC)
But Jewish is a nationality (per Jewish self-definition), so it's safe to assume that this would also be the case within the Marvel universe, no? Either way, it still makes no sense because most of these characters do *not* practice Judaism.ErmacDonald (talk) 08:04, October 1, 2017 (UTC)

I'll rephrase...

For our purposes here on the Marvel Database Category:Jewish is intend solely for use as a function of sorting characters by their religious beliefs and thus should only include characters whose practice of Judaism can actually be verified by in-universe references in their article's trivia section. (For example, here are how I cited Jacob Raven and Amadeus Cho's respective religions.) In terms of nationality we use Category:Israelis. In terms of ethnicity, we do not distinguish humans by the construct of racial phenotype and therefore there is no categorical structure intended to denote human characters' descent. -- Annabell (talk) 08:39, October 1, 2017 (UTC)