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• Wikia Conversation about Spider-Man

SMW Conversation:

[15:01] <Dantman>Peteparker, you could try changing the template to provide semantic annotations instead [14:55] <Rappy> ^ how? I would be interested in this as well. [15:01] <Dantman> agh damnit... I finally found that post and sannse is gone [15:03] <Peteparker> Dantman, That's what SMW MediaWiki's about, right? [15:03] <Dantman> mhmm [15:04] <Peteparker> I can't imagine the transition from not SMW to SMW being all that easy on a template-reliant wiki [15:06] <Dantman> uhh... being template dependent makes transition to SMW soo much easier... [15:07] <Dantman> well as long as you use templates sanely with info like |age=16 rather than |genre=Foo, Bar [15:07] <Peteparker> In that case I know much less about SMW than I thought [15:07] <Peteparker> Have you visited Marvel recently? Not sure I'm using them sanely. :) [15:07] <Peteparker> Though I'd like to believe I'm reasonable [15:08] <Dantman> if your data into the template is clean, then all you do is edit the template to make it annotate the data... and boom, you get hundreds of pages filled with semantic annotations [15:09] <Peteparker> Ah, it would be very easy for us then [15:09] <Dantman> hmmm... so so... | Universe = Earth-616 | BaseOfOperations = London apartment, Agency X is great [15:09] <Dantman> though | Affiliation = Deadpool not so much [15:10] <Peteparker> Interesting, I'd assume due to the pipe [15:10] <Dantman> No, due to the fact it's a link rather than raw data [15:10] <Peteparker> Yea, unfortunately we use links to specify exactly which version of which character is being talked about [15:10] <Peteparker> Yieks work [15:11] == Laura|Away has changed nick to LauraHale [15:11] <Dantman> If you could split that into two params, or use some syntax say "Deadpool#Wade Wilson (Earth-616)" and use string functions... you could piece that link together on the template side and throw in the annotation too [15:12] <Dantman> Also be careful of | Height = 5'7" I don't believe SMW can parse that type of feet/inches unit [15:13] <Dantman> You may have to make that a plain string instead of taking advantage of SMW's understanding of numbers, units, and conversions [15:13] <Rappy> Dantman - what's the run-down of pros/cons? [15:14] <Dantman> they're two different beasts [15:15] <Dantman> DPL is a swiss army saw... a hackers tool... does just about anything, but does it with piles of bugs, and leaves you at a dead end where you can't do any more... [15:15] <Dantman> SMW has it's focus, it does just about everything it can... it's just, you have to give it your data in it's format (usually using templates), you can't hack around like in DPL [15:16] <Dantman> SMW is of course more efficient than DPL... and lists are more flexible [15:16] <Rappy> How's performance? [15:17] <Rappy> SMW quicker? [15:17] <Dantman> mhmm [15:17] <Dantman> smw properly lets MW cache pages [15:17] <Rappy> So basically, SMW takes templates and makes annotations that can be used elsewhere? [15:17] <Dantman> and stores data inside the database rather than constructing ugly mysql queries that get run on every view [15:18] <Rappy> And the only read downfall is not being able to pass it MW links? [15:18] <Dantman> well, SMW takes the annotations... it's your job to put annotations in pages, or more effectively and cleanly turn your data based templates into things that annotate pages in addition to displaying the infobox or whatever [15:19] <Rappy> Do you have an example of an SMW template so I can see the differences? [15:20] <Dantman> there's no SMW template... you just turn whatever infobox or whatever you already have into something that turns the data it gets into annotations as well [15:21] <Dantman> eg: if you're passing a characters age into an infobox with | age= then instead of simply outputting {{{age}}} into an infobox row, you also set that using something like [[Age::{{{age}}}]] which ends up displaying the age, at the same time as saying "Whatever this page is about, has the 'Age' of {{{age}}}" [15:22] == cod4|black_ops has changed nick to callofduty4 [15:23] <Rappy> Is [[Age::{{{age}}}]] displayed? Or do you still have to display it using {{{age}}}? [15:24] <Dantman> [[Age::{{{age}}}]] displays what's in {{{age}}}, (though depending on the type it may be plain, linked, or formatted... [[Age::{{{age}}}| ]] will hide it, and you can also use {{#set:Age={{{age}}}}} to just set it without displaying... this last method is very good if you have any chance of any special characters being inside the value [15:30] <Eduardog3000> Hey, I am a Beurocrat (yes, i know i spelled it wrong) on a wiki and would like to know if there is a page that lists the Beaurocrat (still wrong) tools. [15:32] <Settebref> Bureaucrat, and which wiki do you have them on? [15:32] <joeyaa> Eduardog3000, special:listgrouprights list the rights in each group [15:33] <Eduardog3000> thank you [15:35] <Rappy> Dantman - So if I have templates that accept linked parameters, I'd have to change the way they are handled when using SMW to annotate that parameter? [15:36] <Dantman> mhmm [15:36] <Dantman> Though honnestly... if you wanted to give the data to any system in a useful format you'd have to do that [15:38] <Eduardog3000> what about a list of all the "MediaWiki" links [15:38] <joeyaa> special:allmessages [16:04] <w3bbY> got a problem creating a new wiki. there is an "database error", but if i create a wiki with another name, it's working [16:05] <w3bbY> but the wiki i like to create doesn't exist [16:07] <crucially> Special:Contact pelase [16:08] == w3bbY_ has changed nick to w3bbY [16:19] <Dantman> Heh... "I don't need alcohol or drugs... My high is on sound, my 'influence' is lack of sleep..." [16:27] <Peteparker> Now I remember what SMW is all about. It makes a lot of sense, though I'd probably want to see how you generate the lists to see how flexible that is. I'm sure Wikia would be happy if we could improve our dependence on DPL as well as page loading times. [16:28] <Peteparker> Rappy 's question was focused on the fact that you may have to change your parameters if they're typically linked and acceptable to a template, [16:29] <Peteparker> Couldn't you just as easily use something like #explode to put the annotation in anyway? [16:29] <Peteparker> So if you had | Affiliation = Deadpool, [16:29] <Peteparker> The template makes it Deadpool [16:30] <Peteparker> probably an extra step, but at least you wouldn't have to change either the way you use that field altogether, or change every parameter for that field across the entire site [16:32] <Peteparker> Ah, Dantman already said you could: ...or use some (specific) syntax and use string functions... you could piece that link together on the template side and throw in the annotation too...