Contents 1 Infobox 2 General Clean-up 3 Clean Up 4 The word edto doesn't exist. 5 Drove those three away, or someone else? 6 when were the black leather costumes used? 7 Shi'ar eliminate the greys? Please clarify 8 comparing Magneto to Malcolm X is wrong. 9 Can you compare Xavier with Martin Luther King? 10 Secret Invasion 11 Miscellaneous 12 Astonishing Chronology 13 Expanding? 14 Change of team names?

InfoboxEdit

I think this article would benefit from having an infobox. Is there any reason why it doesn't already? Just before I go to the bother of writing one up. Paul730 23:09, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I guess no one has gotten around to converting it to the team template. ;)

We'll get there, unless you beat us to it!

--Jamie 23:34, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

General Clean-upEdit

I've added the stuff about House of M, Civil War, and the Secret Invasion, but there's need to for a lot of clean-up. For example, the other teams' lists is either gone, disbanded, or just non-existent anymore. The "organizations" section can be cleared since it just has a picture. Also, the Allies and Enemies has rotated on a constant basis especially since the House of M cleaned up most of the bad guys and good guys, plus the Civil War changed things. Equipment/Paraphernalia can be combined. Other Media is just kind of taking up space since there are other universe pages for those other story lines. Just some thoughts. --Samati 05:52, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I take a shot at this page every now and then. All and all the page is looking mostly good. Its just a bit intimidating because of its size. personally, I'm not crazy about all the bullet lists everytime time the line up shifts. Takes up too much space. I'll probably trim those out a bit if no one objects here.--Stature 06:20, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Clean UpEdit

Okay, I'm diving in. No putting it off any longer. Like I said above, the page is fine for the most part. The entire history is here, but there's a lot of clutter. Mostly I think the page is a little "list crazy". Any feedback or assisstance would be appreciated. --Stature 06:44, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Good for you. It is a headache, indeed. I have fixed some of the red links in an effort to ease your pain. Good luck!

Artful Dodger 11:07, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

The word edto doesn't exist. Edit

"The Hunt for Xavier

"With the disbanding of Excalibur, former X-Men Shadowcat, Nightcrawler, and Colossus edto the team and began an era of change" I looked it up in Webster's online dictionary and the wikipedia even, and edto isn't a word. What was suppose to be there? Dream Focus 21:53, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Its a typo. Looks like "returned to"--Stature 04:06, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Drove those three away, or someone else? Edit

"Without purpose, the X-Treme team returned to the Mansion (minus Slipstream, Lifeguard, and Thunderbird). Rogue and Gambit took a leave of absence after their powers were lost. Conflict with Emma and Xavier over the fate of an accused mutant killer quickly drove them away again."

Should the second sentence be moved to after the third? Emma and Xavier wanted to do something with the accused mutant killer, which some disagreed with and left over. Did they want to keep him alive, or kill him, let the authorities work it out? Or did they disagree over what to do, in which case it should read "Conflict between Emma and Xavier", which would make sense since they were totally opposite personalities. I'm thinking he'd want to let the authorities handle it, while she'd just want the guy dead. But I haven't read that issue, so I don't know. Someone who has, please clarify. Dream Focus 18:13, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

yeah, I think it should read "Conflict between Emma and Xavier". Otherwise I'm not sure. Its not an era a very familiar with. Sounds like late X-Treme X-Men issues if I were to guess.

when were the black leather costumes used? Edit

"Cyclops' team ditched the leather costumes to bring back spandex, trying to amaze humans and appear more like superheroes."

Was it to amaze them, or just look less spooky? Also, was the material leather? They could still make costumes with alien technology couldn't they? That material was far stronger than leather, and could regulate their body temperature, etc. Anyway, to say he got rid of them, without mentioning someone had decided to switch over to them anywhere in the article, is a bit confusing. When were they added? Dream Focus 18:31, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

The black costumes were added during the Grant Morrison run in New X-Men/X-Men Vol. 2. And Angel referenced them being "leather" in the Civil War: X-Men mini-series when they briefly re-adopted them (I think he said leather...).

--GrnMarvl14 19:24, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Cyclop's argument was that they were superheroes, having saved the world numerous times, and they should dress like superheroes again. He also said the black leather was making people nervous and wanted the X-Men to present themselves like the Avengers or the Fantastic Four, who don't get chased through the streets with torches. Astonishing X-Men Vol 3 #1 (First Joss Whedon issue).

Chronologically, we can add a note about the leather costumes beig added around the "X-Men Go Global" section --Stature 19:46, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Shi'ar eliminate the greys? Please clarify Edit

"Rachel Summers and her teammates found themselves battling Shi'ar sent to eliminate the Greys and then were whisked away by Jamie Braddock to battle a cosmic threat."

The family of Jean Grey? To eliminate the possibility of another Phoenix perhaps? They have aliens in many science fiction stories called the Greys, but not in Marvel comics as far as I know. Someone who has read that issue please clarify. Dream Focus 09:37, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

It was issue #467 of Uncanny X-Men. The Shi'ar Death Commandos attacked and killed all of Rachel and Jean's extended family; grandparents, cousins, uncles, aunts, etc. The issue was pretty good, in my humble opinion. It took place over only 24 seconds and was very shocking. They were killed so that when the Shi'ar finally get around to destroying the Phoenix (that'll be the day), it would not be able to attach itself to any other member of the Grey family since the Phoenix force seems to have an affinity for that bloodline.

One problem with the story it that the Death Commandos technically should have gone after Cable as well. It was never really explained why they didn't.

Artful Dodger 12:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

comparing Magneto to Malcolm X is wrong. Edit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_X After Mecca, he changed his racists views, and said he regretted having them. So saying someone was as racists as Malcolm X is a bit misinformed. I'm editing that part out of the article. Dream Focus 09:48, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree and since this is pretty much opinion anyhow, I think you did the right thing in having it removed. --M1shawhan 00:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

The comparison between Magneto and Malcolm X has (usually) been in their tactics. In that both preferred a more forceful approach to equality, as opposed to Xavier/MLK who believed more in assimilation.

--GrnMarvl14 01:45, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Can you compare Xavier with Martin Luther King? Edit

In the Notes section, Charles Xavier is compared with Martin Luther King. I find that odd. Martin Luther King spoke out against all violence, while Xavier trains children in his school to fight. Xavier also sent this impressionable young mutants he trained, to break into government areas, and do all sorts of illegal acts at times. Of course, the government did try to kill off all mutants with the Sentinels and whatnot. And Xavier had his followers go out and fight the evils of the world, while to my knowledge, Dr. King never formed a group of teenagers and had them fight anyone. But the message of everyone equal and getting along, I suppose is the same, although its been given out by many people throughout history. Gandhi was the one King got the idea for passive resistance, and using the media to sway public opinion through nonviolent demonstrations, since it had in fact worked in India. Anyway, don't fight back even when people are beating you senseless, as King and his followers did on their history March through Selma, and Gandhi did on many occasions, is totally different than going out and blasting away all those that seek to harm you. Dream Focus 10:16, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Also agree, as far as this opinion, unless it is backed or referred to as a quote from a writer or staff member and addressed as cited as such, I think it too should be removed for being someone's opinion of Xavier, rather than a fact or quote by a staff member or Marvel as a whole. --M1shawhan 00:20, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I seem to recall an interview with Stan Lee where he makes that comparison. Of course, it could have been the interviewer suggesting that and Stan agreeing...

Artful Dodger 01:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

There have been a TON of comparisons between Xavier and MLK and Magneto and Malcolm X. It's never really Xavier being compared to MLK as it is Xavier being compared to Magneto with MLK and Malcolm X being used as examples of their differing philosophies. I'm fairly certain I've even seen the comparison made in the comics (didn't Storm reference knowing someone like the Skrull MLK during the Fantastic Four storyline in Black Panther?), and I KNOW I've seen it made by creators. Whether it's valid to have on the page...no clue. And it was always more of a comparison in that Xavier believes humans and mutants can coexist together, not him believing in non-violence.

--GrnMarvl14 01:43, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I think its a good comparison, but not for an online encyclopedia.ROVERT 19:35, October 26, 2009 (UTC)ROVERT

The comparison is based on the idea that Malcolm X preached African supremacy, which he did not, and Martin Luther King preached peaceful integration, similar to Xavier. A more apt analagy for Magneto would be the earlier African-American activist Marcus Garvey. --Lwmorton1234 05:10, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Secret InvasionEdit

Okay, someone clearly put a ton of work into the secret invasion section, which I admire. But isn't it a bit large in comparison to the rest of the article for a mini that is essentially the X-Men's token contribution to what was mainly an Avengers storyline?--Stature 05:05, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Heresy! Heresy I say! It was an X-Men storyline, which they just happen to let the Avengers play around in. ;) No, seriously though, I just read it and it doesn't seem long. And they did play an important part, Beast making the virus and all. I'm not sure how that story arc ended in other comics, but having a virus that could drive off all the Skrulls means they could've handled it on their own. And they know a woman who can teleport to other planets even. Good way to spread the virus around quickly, and wipe out a dangerous species that won't stop invading others. Dream Focus 06:10, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, I admit I haven't read any of this yet. But I think such a beat by beat summary would be better of in the plot synopsis section of each issue, rather than here. It really depends on how much the mini affects the core books from here on out. If Uncanny, Legacy, and Astonishing or any other Marvel U books ignore it for the most part, we should probably think about trimming it back.--Stature 08:25, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it's because of this story that the majority of people in San Francisco actually accept the X-Men. So it's kind of an important explanation as to why San Francisco is more accepting than...well...anywhere else. More than the vague "San Francisco loves everyone" explanation that's largely given, anyway.

--GrnMarvl14 02:04, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Fine, you guys win. ;) When the trade comes out I might take a stab at "tightening" it just a smidge though, just to get the stream of consciousness feel out of it. Nothing drastic. Okay, moving on... there's a section called New Teams that has nothing but a roster. I haven't read X-Men regularly since Grant Morrison wrote the book, so I know nothing about this era.--Stature 07:42, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

That looks to be when Mike Carey and Ed Brubaker took over the books and altered the teams. Circa...Uncanny #480 and X-Men Vol 2 #180...or maybe a bit farther off. Close enough. I think that was actually AFTER Civil War, but I might be wrong on my timing.

--GrnMarvl14 21:04, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

It looks like you're right. There's some overlap, but I think Civil War has the edge. Flipped.--Max 09:27, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I finally read most of the Secret Invasion books including the X-Men mini, and its pretty clear that the mini isn't very important in the grand scheme. Skrull show up, the X-Men fight and the Skrulls die. No need for every sideways glance in there here so edited it down to the basics.--Max 00:01, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it was fairly unimportant in terms of the Secret Invasion as a whole. And in the X-Men's history (well...beyond it being why San Francisco accepted them, and it being the first real show of force for the gathered mutants, something that's being revisited in the Dark Avengers/Uncanny X-Men/"Utopia" story).

--GrnMarvl14 01:18, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Miscellaneous Edit

Is there a point to the Miscellaneous section? Look at the section below it. AHB 04:03, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

It was an old template that's a little out of date. Fixed.

Astonishing Chronology Edit

When does Joss Whedon's run on Astonishing X-Men fit in comparison to Uncanny X-Men, specifically the House of M and Decimation, because loads of unnamed mutants appear in this run and some appear in the list of active mutants in the mutants article, which indicates it may occur after M-Day, but then how did Collosus appear in some story lines? Is there an answer or is it just a miscommunication between books?

--Lwmorton1234 04:18, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

According to the Official Index, Astonishing X-Men #1-6 occurred prior to Uncanny X-Men #459 (which was pre-M-Day). 7-12 occurred following Uncanny X-Men #461 (still pre-M-Day). Then 13-24 and Giant-Size take place following M-Day.

--GrnMarvl14 17:08, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Expanding? Edit

Anyone have issue with me expanding on the early years stuff? I think it can be fleshed out a bit more.

Nausiated 18:15, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, have fun. --Max 19:23, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

I know you were given carte blanche, but don't you think its a little excessive now? Every issue doesn't really need a sentence and citation specifically for it. I might sum up in more general terms (one sentence for the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants appearances in the first 11 issues, with the citation naming all the issues, for instance), and some villains I'd probably neglect to mention entirely (the Locust comes to mind...).

The point of a summary is to summarize. You're blinding with details when you should be trying to give a general overview and identifying major themes. So, taking the first 20 issues, for example, the highlights should be: repeatedly clash with Magneto and his Brotherhood of Evil Mutants (ref #1,4-7,11,17,18); attempt to find new mutants and get them to join the school (ref #3,8,19); and the start of the transition from heroes to pariahs (ref #14-16). Juggernaut and Lucifer also both need to be mentioned, but as they're mostly significant as menaces from Professor X's past, not much explanation is actually needed on the *X-Men* page at that point.

Basically, you're not writing an exact chronology, and you're not trying to note every event that happened. You're trying to lay down in broad strokes what was important about an era.

I might have a hand at reworking this after I finish some character pages. But I don't want to clash with someone over a vision for the page either - i would like to see a history summary that was actually a summary, though.

--Squirrelloid 10:06, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Change of team names? Edit

Does anyone think the names of the teams should maybe be switched to "utopia" and "jean grey school"? Saying team cyclops and team wolverine sounds too much like team edward and team jacob. Andy Nominus 18:36, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

I think your argument makes sense, maybe just change "Team Wolverine" for "Jean Grey School", because "Team Cyclops" is really "Extinction Team".

ADour, the ADour-tacular ADour 20:01, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

extinction team only refers to the squad focused on in "uncanny x-men", not to the squads in "x-men", "new mutants", and "generation hope" Andy Nominus 23:52, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

In the comics I believe they refer to Utopia X-Men and Westchester X-Men. Those could be appropriate simple titles.

--Gipdac 01:45, March 9, 2012 (UTC)