Talk: Godzilla (Earth-616)

Leviathan is or isn't Godzilla

Ok, this is bugging me. Is Leviathan REALLY Godzilla? At least with the Iron Man appearances, it's heavily implied. Where does it imply in X-Men that Leviathan is Godzilla?

Just because it's similar in appearance doesn't mean they're one and the same. Also, Dr. Yuriko Takaguchi says "The one thing I thought for sure the Russians could not stop. I made it, you know. I created it. Right here, in this lab." I haven't read the original issue of Godzilla, but Marvel Appendix states that "Dr. Yuriko Takaguchi was present during this testing as a passive resistant and witnessed Godzilla's arrival." That definitely conflicts with his statement above if we assume this is the same creature.

I say, we split these into two articles. Zakor1138 (talk) 03:49, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

By that I mean keep Godzilla's appearances from his series plus his appearances in Iron Man, Thing and the small cameos, and have Leviathan be its own article. Zakor1138 (talk) 04:07, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea. Even if it looks like Godzilla, it might not be him, specially considering Marvel can't legally use him.

--The ADour-incible ADour (talk) 14:03, February 25, 2015 (UTC)

Ok, I pretty much explained why Godzilla and Leviathan should be split. Zakor1138 (talk) 17:47, May 4, 2015 (UTC)

It seems like all parties are in agreement that Leviathan is not meant to be Godzilla, but no one has bothered to remove Leviathan from the Godzilla page. I guess I'll just do it. Someone may still want to make a separate page for the Leviathan though. I don't have enough information about it to write an entire page.

--The King of the Monsters (talk) 13:50, May 20, 2015 (UTC)

Correct. The reference for Zakor's statement is Godzilla #1. Takaguchi was present when Godzilla was awoken or perhaps mutated by a "joint nations nuclear underwater test" and the only survivor of the ship witnessing it. So the creature created in his lab cannot be Godzilla. Maybe it's supposedd to be a clone of zilla, but not the same creature.--edkaufman (talk) 08:35, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

I disagree with this. The Marvel Chronology Project (which I should point out are the group that helps Marvel with their recent run of official Indexes) classifies Leviathan as Godzilla. While an Index hasn't been published that implicitly states this (the only one that mentions Godzilla is the book on Iron Man, which lists its appearance in Iron Man #196 and states its next appearance is in Thing #31) that's not an indication that that it is the last appearance of Godzilla in a Marvel book. Guest Stars (which is what Godzilla is classified in that issue as) only have their following appearance listed, as opposed to feature characters that list all their appearances between issues.

That said, reading the Uncanny X-Men stories it is highly ambiguous as to the true identity of Godzilla. When Takiguchi goes on about "creating" Godzilla, he isn't specifying when he supposedly created the Leviathan. If anyone wants to try picking up and reading the original Godzilla run, you'll notice that the Godzilla Squad got all their intel from Takiguchi himself. That seems highly suspicious to me. I wouldn't be surprised if Takiguchi was making up the story of Godzilla's origins and wasn't responsible for creating the monster in the first place. Since Marvel has been trying to distance the monster away from the licensing issues so it can be used on occasion, a false story on the part of Takiguchi makes sense. It divorces it from the origins that derived from the original Godzilla movie and gives a Marvel-esque origin instead. You'll note that Takiguchi states that the Leviathan killed his son. That's an important bit of information since when Takiguchi is first seen in Godzilla #1 it is with his grandson Robert. Through the entire Godzilla run, there are no mention or sight of Roberts parents suggesting that perhaps Roberts parents are dead and his grandfather is his legal guardian. I suspect it was implied that Roberts parents were killed by Godzilla.

Anyway, it's splitting hairs I think and since the two monsters are very much identical, and while nobody has bothered to actually create anything more than a red link for Leviathan, I am taking the initiative and updating the Godzilla article to include both. Since I put all the work into providing a complete article about Godzilla, I would respect that the rest of you keep it intact since nobody else bothered to have any initiative on the matter.

Thanks.

Nausiated (talk) 20:56, March 12, 2016 (UTC)

"the two monsters are very much identical" While Leviathan clearly resembles Godzilla to a degree and is at the very least meant to be a nod to him, I would argue that they aren't really identical. Marvel Godzilla's appearance has been pretty consistent since he debuted, even when in his mutated form, and Leviathan looks noticeably different. What's more, Godzilla was shown in Mighty Avengers #1 reverted back to his normal form, then this Leviathan creature appears later and looks very different. And again, I refer to Takiguchi's statements about having created Leviathan and it having killed his son, which are largely incompatible with Takiguchi's dialogue and behavior in Godzilla, King of the Monsters. Yes, it's possible to retcon all of that, but my point still stands that it is a very large contradiction. Not to mention, I personally find it a bit odd for Marvel to portray their incarnation of Godzilla as quite a formidable creature, and occasionally give him small cameos long after their rights to him expired, then just unceremoniously kill him off in this issue of Uncanny X-Men.

My point isn't that Leviathan is definitely not Godzilla. He obviously resembles Godzilla, and the appearance of Takiguchi alongside him is a clear reference to the Marvel Godzilla, King of the Monsters run. My point is just, as you said, the creature's identity is highly ambiguous, and there is as of yet no way for us to be entirely sure that this creature is Godzilla. Given this, and the fact that the other contributors on this talk page seem to have come to a consensus long ago that the pages should be split, I personally think it's probably best to play it safe and split the articles up for now. As I said before, I don't have nearly enough information on Leviathan nor how this wiki operates to make a page for it myself, so it would be greatly appreciated for a more seasoned editor here to take the initiative so we can split the pages without just leaving Leviathan and all information about it out in the cold. At the very least, the page should be edited to reflect that there is no certainty that Leviathan is Godzilla. The way the page is formatted and worded treats it like a confirmed fact that Leviathan is Godzilla. I'd be more than happy to help out with the process if someone wants to take the initiative and get a separate Leviathan page set up. Of course, I'm not the admin here or even a regular editor, so I will accept whatever decision is made. I'm just giving my two cents.

As a side note, the most recent appearance of the Marvel Godzilla was actually in a humorous "Licensed Contest of Champions" illustration Marvel released for the company's 75th anniversary celebration, depicting him battling the Shogun Warriors (of course censored so as to avoid copyright infringement). Here's the image: [1] The King of the Monsters (talk) 06:52, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

The two monsters look almost nothing alike outside of very vague similarities, obviously due to copyright law. Takiguchi's statements do not match at all with what we know about him, or Godzilla's origins in the Marvel continuity. The Chronology Project is not an official source of Marvel comics so much as an incredibly well-done fansite and cannot be used as a source for anything, merely as a guide. CyberXIII (talk) 15:21, June 14, 2018 (UTC)