Well, Tony, if you read the exchange between Nick, Spencer and I, you know that I was outvoted. I hope that you will change your mind about leaving the site. I, for one, appreciated your contributions.
Thank you Bill. I appreciate your suppot and your encouragement. Unfortunately I just don't feel I can be comfortable here anymore. This site has been important to me for some years now and I believed I was contributing something worthwhile with my input regarding the Marvel UK universe, which was in itself inextricably linked with the Doctor Who strip for well over a decade. I felt I was part of a community of friends where I was accepted, which is rare for me. Apparently this is not the case. I handled the matter badly, i know that, but the individual I was interacting with was, I believe, being deliberately provocative, and I was both angry and hurt when Nick, as I saw it, took his side and spoke to me in a manner I either rightly or wrongly considered patronizing (I would also like to point out, in answer to the comments from Nick regarding the good Doctor's legitimacy as a Marvel character, that not only did the Doctor Who strip spawn several characters who have since become integrated into the Marvel Universe, but that the Doctor himself has directly interacted with characters from elsewhere in the Marvel Universe both in and outside his own strip on several occasions; he appears, for instance, in Death's Head Vol 1 8, and that alone should be enough to qualify him for entry here). Anyway, regardless: I know myself and my temperament, and I don't believe I can be here anymore. I certainly wouldn't trust myself to be civil to the individual I was arguing with, who I would undoubtedly cross paths with again. I am also basically very precious about my work and respond badly to having it deleted or considered irrelevant or worthless (probably a stupid attitude, but that's me), and even more badly to insinuations like the one put forth by the individual the other night that I would input material without knowing it was correct, or worse, knowing that it wasn't. In all the time I have been here, I have never, ever to my knowledge entered information the veracity of which I was uncertain of, and I was again angered that the person in question insinuated that I had without being challenged. As I said, this site has been very important to me, it's been a labour of love, but I just feel it's been soured for me now, for good. I just wanted to thank you for contacting me and for your kind comments. I appreciated it.
I understand where you're coming from. I was told by Billy and Rab on DC wiki that my contributions were 'ugly', 'boring' and 'unnecessary' and that's why I no longer contribute there despite being an admin. I am sure that if you continue with wikia on another wiki you will do good work.
Hmm, I'm sorry this came about. I do not know what happened. However I do think it would be unfortunate to lose someone contributing valuable information as you have. I have enjoyed working on this site and will continue to provide information and hope you will too.
Tony ingram wrote:
I would also like to point out, in answer to the comments from Nick regarding the good Doctor's legitimacy as a Marvel character, that not only did the Doctor Who strip spawn several characters who have since become integrated into the Marvel Universe, but that the Doctor himself has directly interacted with characters from elsewhere in the Marvel Universe both in and outside his own strip on several occasions; he appears, for instance, in Death's Head Vol 1 8, and that alone should be enough to qualify him for entry here
Points you should bring up here, where the issue is being discussed.
Tony ingram wrote:
...but the individual I was interacting with was, I believe, being deliberately provocative
In my own defense:
1) I did not start an edit war. You kept saying I should refer the page to an admin to discuss it's deletion, yet kept removing the deletion tag, something that exists for the purposes of referring a page to an admin for its deletion. Furthermore, simply being tagged for deletion does not automatically mean deletion. I tagged a page for deletion, one whose deletion doesn't even need to be argued, about a month ago that still exists. You should have waited for an admin to take the tag off the page rather than taking it upon yourself.
2) I remained civil during the entire ordeal. I did not leave increasinglyhostilemessages on your message wall. Furthermore, I also warned you thrice (in the message I left on your wall, as a description on an edit adding the deletion tag, and as a response to one of the messages you left on my wall) before I reported you to a site administrator.
3) I do not feel your contributions are "worthless" or "irrelevant", or ugly or boring for that matter. It is only the one page that I took issue with. Furthermore, every user, regardless of how experienced, will make a mistake at some point. I have made a whole mess of mistakes in the past. Even Spencerz, a site administrator, realized he should probably revisit some of his old edits while commenting on this issue. But two admins at this point have said that the page does not belong here, which, although not yet a majority, is enough for you to probably consider you might have made a mistake, or you can at least understand why the page is controversial. As Darkseid01 puts up a valid defense of the page, the discussion should at least be had.
If this one possible mistake is enough for you to not want to contribute to this site again, then that is your choice. But you should realize that it is only your choice, and you are welcome back here at any point.
There may be a Dr. Who special comic made by Marvel comics, but that alone does not qualify him to be here. For the same reason, characters included in Marvel Comics' runs with Star Wars and Transformers comics do not have a page here. See Transformers Vol 1 1 for an example.
I am referring to an admin, that's why I'm tagging the page for deletion. If an admin disagrees with its deletion, he or she will remove the tag. Until it is decided upon, stop removing the tag or I will report you to an admin.
LW, the difference between SW and Transformers characters is that the The Doctor does have an earth reference, Earth-5556. I do not know the source for that designation. If it is a legitimate source from Marvel then the page should stay.
LoveWaffle is correct. The "mainstream" Dr. Who which you are referencing to is not a Marvel property and has had zero interaction with the Marvel Universe. Besides there is already a profile for the Doctor for his Earth-5556 counterpart.. Which if you ask me does not belong here either.
It's the same principal as with Transformers, G.I. Joe, and the like. They are "connected" to the Marvel Universe through alternate realities and interactions with Marvel characters (With Dr. Who in particular we're talking about Death's Head who also interacted with the Transformers)
It's the policy of this wiki that such characters do not have profiles since there are other wikis that cover those properties quite thoroughly it's essentially a duplication of information. LoveWaffle makes a valid point by citing Transformers #1 as an example (a page that I edited myself actually) and all the character links refer readers to the Transformers Wiki.
So yeah, LoveWaffle was in the right by putting a deletion tag.
Also Tony, I would suggest a little less confrontational behaviour on the Wiki. Show some decorum and a little more respect to your fellow editors. Just because you have tenure on the site does not give you license to be a jerk to other people. Consider that a warning.
Y'know what? Do what you want. I take exception to delete tags being added to pages I've just spent MY time creating, witthout discussion, by people I've never heard of. Sue me. But if my efforts here aren't appreciated-fine. I won't bother to come here again. And if I had it in my power I'd delete every damn entry I've ever wasted my time making. I thought I was adding worthwhile info here all this time for the benefit of people with a genuine interest in comics history. Evidently not.
I appreciate your effort - I know how it feels to have your work undone. But there are two questions you need to ask yourself before creating an article: 1)Does this article belong on this site?, and 2)Does this page already exist? The article you made is a rare exception in that it fails both of those questions.
Contributions to the site are voluntary Tony, that's the whole point of a Wiki. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to make contributions. However, this is a community and a democratic one. We've made a point of outlining what material is valid in this community and the evidence of that is well documented on the site.
Now if you want to have sour grapes over a minor issue, that is your own imperative. You've been contributing to this site for over 2 years and your taking issue for one article being deleted? My opinion that's pretty irrational.
To put this into perspective: I've been here since 2005, I've had numerous numbers of my contributions edited, deleted, changed, added onto and I have not had a single issue with any one item that people have changed and I have not raised a single protest because these changes and what-have-you have all been reasonably explained.
But again, the choice is your Tony, if you can't play nice and want to pull the premadonna bit and stop contributing to the site because you don't agree with a single decision then that choice is entirely yours, because as I've said making contributions to a wiki is entirely the option of the contributor.
In other words: It's only the internet. Lighten up.
Well nobody is holding you to it Tony. Given your attitude toward others I can't say that I'm sorry to see you go. But your not the first or last person to pull this sort of attitude when you don't get your own way. Enjoy your future endeavours. You're welcome to come back whenever you decide to play fair with others.
Hi Tony. I noticed that you had posted some images of no-prize winning envelopes. I was curious if you remembered what you had won the no-prizes for? I thought it would be fun to see if I have any scans with your letter in them.
I won two Bill, but I can only remember what one was for! Someone wrote in about Daredevil, commenting on him being blind and asking if Marvel had ever had a deaf superhero, and was told "no". I pointed out that Hawkeye was deaf and had been wearing a hearing aid since the end of the Hawkeye limited series in 1983. I can't remember when that was, but I know both No-Prizes were issued in the 90s. I'll try and do some digging...
Hey there. So I came across some of the 2005 promo comics you added (Avengers: Assemble (Promo) is the first one I noticed). And I as wondering if there was a different naming convention we could use, with the Vol # # standard. Would just using Avengers: Assemble Vol 1 1 work? Or, if they are native to your side of the Atlantic, could it read something like Avengers: Assemble (UK) Vol 1 1.
I was actually intending to seek advice from an Admin on that one; Fantastic was 90% Marvel reprints, but it was actually published by a company called Odhams, and the Missing Link was actually an Odhams character, not a Marvel one! He deserves a mention as his was the only non reprint strip in the book, but I'm not sure if it's allowable to give him his own character page here (though I know the DC Database has pages for non-DC characters from companies linked to DC). That's why I added off-site links to his page on the Albion British Comics Wiki instead.
I appreciate the invite, but Tony is the UK expert here. If Missing Link has an off site page, linking out to it is the best thing. Gives a little love to the other wiki and keeps things straight here.
You are the pro, Tony. I will defer to your judgement on this.
Thanks. Then I think I'd prefer to keep the off-site link. My personal feeling is that anything to do with characters created (or in some cases licensed) by Marvel belongs here, as do licensed reprints of Marvel material, but that while the Odhams Power Comics themselves were pretty much Marvel by default, Odhams originated characters were not. There may be a case for more off-site links (and I appreciate the "love for the other wiki" comment BTW) but not for actual character pages dedicated to non-Marvel published characters on here. Does that make sense?
Can I ask why we need individual character images of team members on team galleries? It seems that if people want to see individual members, they can go to the galleries for those characters. Why not leave team galleries to images of the team, not individual team members? It's sort of like adding individual histories to the team pages.
I just thought it would be a convenient, visually interesting way of pointing people in the direction of individual characters who are on the teams, who they may not have looked into before. I thought it might help make the DB a gateway into the deeper Marvel Universe for newcomers. But if you don't like it, I'll stop.
I just don't see the benefit, personally. Maybe I'm alone in that, but it seems odd to have the individual images on there, especially when a lot of the characters (especially on, say, the Avengers) are fairly well-known in their own right. I get the idea behind it, and it's not bad, but when you look at the size of the Avengers roster over the years (over a hundred members), or the X-Men (likely even larger), you end up presenting a lot of the same information covered in the roster section on the main page itself, adding load time to the gallery, and possibly taking away the focus from the team images.
That's a good point; there is admittedly a big difference between a team the size of the Microns or even the Defenders and one the size of the Avengers. Though I would counter by saying that some Avengers are so obscure that people won't necessarily look for them unless they're signposted (like Deathcry or Mantis, or poor neglected Sassafrass on the Defenders) and the roster section, being 'hidden' for reasons of space (in fact, in the Avengers case it links to a different page) is easily overlooked-and I have been making the member galleries separate from the team image galleries. If you think there are likely to be issues with load time though, that's a different matter, and something I hadn't thought of I'll admit. I was only intending to take that gallery up to 'Disassembled' in any case (I consider the later incarnations new teams, personally) but even that might be too big. Fair point, Brad.